By Paola Pascual & Simon Kennell on Mar 28, 2022 11:23:22 AM
From 9 to 5, Leon works at the largest business and employment-oriented social media platform as a Talent Attraction Partner and is involved in quite a few other exciting projects. He has several years of experience in human resources, talent acquisition, and employer branding, and he loves helping people achieve their goals through content creation and social selling. If you follow his LinkedIn page, you will find interesting content on personal branding, career development, LinkedIn, and connecting people. He runs a community of creators called by regular people as well as his own podcast - Leon & The Professionals.
Leon Nussbaumer didn’t follow the traditional “from A to B” path. He tried different career paths before he found this place, where is thriving. We spoke with him and he shared some excellent advice on how to ‘crack the code’ to land your dream job. If you are considering applying to work at an international company or are just curious to hear his story, listen to this Talaera Talks episode.
Powerful Interview Tips By Leon Nussbaumer
Leon was born in Brazil and had to learn how to conduct interviews in English, but he has also been a recruiter himself. In our latest podcast episode, he shares his valuable advice for those interviewing for multinational companies and he tells us his experience from both sides of the story –the candidate and the recruiter. These are our favorite takeaways.
1 - Trust that you will connect the dots
If you have watched Steve Job’s Standford speech from 2005, you know what this means. “You can’t connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backward. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future”.
The idea behind this concept of connecting the dots is that we cannot plan our lives ahead in advance. As much as we try, unpredictable things happen in life and, although they may not make sense at the time, they will all contribute to creating your future self. Looking back, you then understand the role that all those unplanned events played in your life.
Leon Nussbaumer worked at a restaurant, studied law, passed the bar exam, and worked in tax law for two years. He moved to Ireland and gained experience in HR and recruitment and now works in content creation and talent attraction. However disconnected his story may seem, all those steps have created who he is today. The common thread is his ability to deal and connect with people and gain their trust. That skill, together with his growth mindset and curiosity helped him get to where he is today.
2 - It’s never too late to learn English
You didn’t need to have good grades in English at school to become a great communicator. What you need is a growth mindset. And enjoy the process.
“We learned English back home, but I was always the worst student in the class. English wasn't for me until I came to Ireland”. Even though English wasn't for him, Leon stayed curious. He is involved in all sorts of projects and likes to learn about many different things. When he moved to Ireland, he joined an English course and made the commitment to go to class every single day. Even if he was out the night before or didn’t feel like it. We would attend class without fail. By pushing himself to stay consistent, he found joy.
Still today, he finds joy in learning new things - how to run a podcast, how to manage a community, how to start a new career, how to improve his accent. And that is what makes a difference.
3 - You don’t need to speak perfect English
“I have an accent, I'm aware of that”, says Leon. He may not sound like a native-English speaker, but that doesn’t stop him. His English is more than enough to navigate an international workplace. His goal is to have clear, well-spoken English. Of course, he wants to get better, to keep improving his English, to work on his accent, but then he is well aware of the fact that to become an effective communicator, you don't need perfection.
If you are considering applying for a job at an international company, you need to be able to communicate clearly in English, but perfect fluency is not absolutely necessary to land the job. If it is an international company, its employees should be used to dealing with people from diverse backgrounds, with different accents, and coming from all sorts of places. In fact, in those environments, the native speakers are the ones who tend to modify their speaking and pace and adapt (simply because they are the minority). Think that, in many of those organizations, more than half of the employees don’t speak English as their mother tongue. That should take some pressure off.
4 - To pass an interview, practice makes perfect
“Interview-wise, the best practice is to practice. I don't think there's any other way around it”, Leon says. Many companies are working towards creating recruitment processes that are fair and consistent. They need to give the same experience to all candidates, regardless of their background. This results in very similar interviews across the board. And that means that you can (fairly easily) crack the code.
Make sure you prepare your interviews thoroughly. Practice in front of others who are either native-English speakers or have a good understanding of what well-spoken English sounds like. This will help you increase your self-awareness and identify your areas of improvement.
Prepare a script and have it in front of you when you do the first phone interview. Remember: preparation, repetition, repetition, repetition. This will help you pass this first step and give you the confidence you need to complete the following steps. You can also practice your interview questions with an instructor.
5 - Trust in your skills
Some years ago, to work at an international company, you had to have a very high level of English. Lately, however, we've started to realize how more companies are prioritizing technical skills and emotional intelligence over purely English level. Organizations now understand that having learning capabilities and a growth mindset will contribute to the success of the company to a much greater degree than using prepositions correctly. Plus, by accepting people with less than perfect English, companies get access to a new pool of talent that was previously untapped.
What this means for you is that you should trust in the skills you currently have and go for it. Let the recruiter tell you that you are not good enough for the role. Don't say it to yourself. You never know.
6 - Invest in personal branding
Personal branding is a way of positioning yourself as an authority in your industry and enhancing your reputation. It is an effective strategy to differentiate yourself from the competition and advance in your career. Personal branding involves networking, content creation, and consistency.
LinkedIn, where Leon shares most of his content, is one of the most popular platforms to work on your personal branding. To build credibility, you need to find your voice and be unique. You need to sound genuine and original. Forget about how you are supposed to sound and sound like yourself (your actual self). At the end of the day, people want to hear from people.
Personal branding is an effective way of showcasing what you do best. It’s your business card, cover letter, and references all in one. It is your ticket to landing your dream job.
Connect with Leon Nussbaumer:
This article works as supporting material for our podcast episode with Leon. You can read the transcript below. Make sure you check out all our other Talaera Talks episodes and subscribe to get new episode alerts.
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If you enjoyed this article, keep reading:
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Talaera Talks - Transcript Episode 41
If you are learning English, including new English words and expressions will help you with effective communication. Remember to check out our other episodes on how to make small talk, how to deliver engaging presentations, how to speak English fluently, and many more: visit the podcast website. Listen to it on your favorite platform.
Welcome to Talaera Talks, the business English communication podcast for non-native professionals. My name is Paola and I am co-hosting this show with Simon. In this podcast, we're going to be covering communication advice and tips to help express yourself with confidence in English in professional settings. So we hope you enjoy the show!
Simon Kennell 0:24
Welcome back, everybody to another awesome episode of Talaera Talks. Wherever you are, I hope you're having a great day filled with a lot of learning and sunshine, hopefully. My name is Simon and I'm joined today by Paola. Paola, how are you doing?
Paola Pascual 0:43
Hi, Simon. I'm doing great. Very excited about you know, this episode and our guest.
Simon Kennell 0:48
Yeah, that's right, we have another awesome guest, one that we've really been looking forward to. And I am as usual going to do a small little introduction now. Leon, just tell me if I'm saying your name right, or if any of these amazing facts are just, you know, kind of out of the ballpark. But yeah, so where do I begin with Leon Nussbaumer. That's right?
Leon Nussbaumer 1:17
Simon Kennell 1:18
Awesome. All right. So um, yeah, I mean, a man who really seems to be doing it all. Several years of experience in human resources, talent acquisition, as well, employer branding. And, you know, I basically ripped off your your LinkedIn profile and made it my own here. But you know, in your, in his own words, he talks about loving helping people achieve their goals through content creation and social selling on LinkedIn, which I thought was pretty interesting. And among the many things that you're doing, I mean, yeah, creating content on LinkedIn, personal branding, connecting people, as well, running your own podcast and community - Leon and the Professionals, which I think is really cool. We, you said, you're now at episode number five. So it's a new creation, but something that looks very, very exciting. And you already have a lot of very interesting guests and awesome guests. And besides all of this, you are doing the nine to five working with talent acquisition, talent, attraction, excuse me, at LinkedIn. So with recruitment marketing and employer branding, and you're doing a special focus with content creation, which I think there are so many things here that we wanted to get into. But first, I have a quick question before we let you introduce yourself a little bit. If you can tell us your favorite F1 driver and your favorite type of coffee.
Leon Nussbaumer 2:58
Favorite F1 Driver, Ayrton Senna. Probably my favorite.
Simon Kennell 3:05
Legend, of course.
Leon Nussbaumer 3:06
A legend. I used to watch his races you know from probably 1984 onwards. Actually, I was born in 1984. I'm just telling my age. Around around that time. Favorite coffee? I have... Well, I don't have a favorite coffee. I think I like to explore with coffee probably same way as people that like beer and craft beer like to explore the different flavors. And so that's what I like to do. And I use, you know, different methods, different coffees, sometimes even the cheap coffee or try to make cheap coffee taste great. So it's a nice challenge.
Simon Kennell 3:49
Ah, that is that is that. And could you tell us the parts maybe that I missed a little bit about where you're from originally? Where you grew up? And what what brought you here today?
Leon Nussbaumer 4:04
Sure. So my family has quite an international story. My parents, they were actually born in Congo at a time where it used to be called Zaire, if you speak French, and they lived in different places across the globe, but Belgium mostly and then my mum lived some time in Spain, and they went to Brazil. And that's where I was born. So I was born in São Paulo. I think a lot of people know at São Paulo, but I was raised in Santos, which is the city we know who is from Santos? Neymar from Paris Saint-Germain is from Santos. And Pele. Of course, exactly for the hardcore old football, old school football fans. And then in Brazil, it's where I lived most of my life. And when I decided that I wanted to make a career change, I did law, I studied law, I passed the bar exam, I worked two years with tax law. But I didn't want to work with law at all and didn't want to be a lawyer, it was more for because of the pressure of my family. I decided to go to Ireland because I was like, I want to work in a multinational, probably in a role with a role related to communication. And then I went to Ireland, and here I am, after almost 12 years, it's going to be 12 years, in May have been having a good time and doing a little bit of everything, as you just mentioned there.
Paola Pascual 5:42
Wow. That's fascinating. And what brought you I mean, from coming from law, then, you know, moving into a communication career, and then having experience in the HR field? What, what drove you there?
Leon Nussbaumer 5:57
That's a good question. I don't think I have as a I don't have a great inspiring story to tell for most part. So when I was, first of all back home, there's a pressure for us to get into university very early, I think is a little bit different here in Europe, I feel. But there, you know, you'll be getting to university, maybe, depending on where you were born 17 18, 19. And you're already making a decision where you're going to do for life. So I remember having this conversation with my dad. Because I never knew, maybe I always knew, but I didn't see that as a possibility. I don't want to turn this into a therapy session. I didn't see as a possibility. So I had that feeling that I you know, I don't know what I'm going to do. So, if you didn't know what you were going to do back then, in Brazil, you would go for the, you know, the traditional carriers that could give you money. So you're talking about being a doctor, being an engineer, or being a lawyer. So I had that conversation with my my dad. And he was like, Well, you know, do you like to...? He brought me to see, like dead bodies, you know, in a hospital or whatever. I didn't like that, So...
Simon Kennell 7:14
That's the fourth, that's the fourth....
Paola Pascual 7:17
Leon Nussbaumer 7:19
I removed that from the list. Yeah. And he was like, Do you like Maths? And I was like, No, so it was like, going to law. That's easy.
Simon Kennell 7:28
Dead bodies? Math? Well, I guess the other idea will be law. Yes,
Leon Nussbaumer 7:32
Yeah. But something that I... Regardless of the work environment that I was in, and the the job that I had, I was always it was always very easy for me to deal with people and to gain people's trust. And I think that's a skill that I carried over, you know, when I was working with tax law, when I came to Ireland, and worked in the restaurant industry, which, for me, was one of the most fun times that I ever experienced in in a workplace, and then deciding to go to human resources. Because in my head, I was very, I was being very simplistic, and I was like, Well, I'm good with people, I think HR, yes, that's what they need. And in the end, I realized that that wasn't the case at all. And I actually escaped from the HR roles, because I'd, I saw that some HR practitioner practitioners and, and some HR departments are like a doctor's room or college office, a lot of there's a lot of joy, but there's a lot of problems that employees go through. And I didn't want to deal with that. I didn't feel that I had the energy. And then going to recruitment coordination, because someone made the transition. And they told me Well, HR was a bit heavy for me, but recruitment is all joy. People are trying to be the best version of themselves. It's fast paced, it's intense. But you know, when you're speaking to candidates, they're selling themselves. So it's not that bad. So I was like, interesting. So I went into recruitment. And that's where I spent almost three years working in tech recruitment. But from the first year in recruitment, I realized that it wasn't really for me. So I've been working on my career transition since pre pandemic, times and I think the pandemic delayed things a little bit. Then I moved companies, I started to create content on LinkedIn to make the transition happen because I had tried but I, I could not land because of lack of experience was like, Okay, I'll just showcase that online. And that's how I got the role that I that I have today, which is, you know, to the point exactly what I wanted to do, it took some time -so from 1984 to today you make the math, but I'm here today.
Paola Pascual 10:04
And that's what matters. (Exactly) Awesome. So when you moved, I mean, from what you've taught, you really have a very diverse background, and you must be used to the interaction with people from from all over. But how was it for you? Like at what point in communication and especially in English because that's how most people communicate, You know, in the business environment? Was that a shock for you? Was there a challenge? Or were you you know, you found it easy, breezy?
Leon Nussbaumer 10:40
No, it was challenging. We have and we learned English back home, but I was always the, you know, worst student of the class. English wasn't for me until I came to Ireland. So even though English wasn't for me, I am very curious that I, you know, I'm doing all sorts of things. And I'm like, Can I do this? Can I do this? I can try. So you know, I, I always had that mindset, they call it a growth mindset. They didn't have a name for in 1990. But what was your question? Again, I lost, I lost it.
Paola Pascual 11:25
I was talking about, we were talking just about English and your communication skills when you moved.
Leon Nussbaumer 11:30
So when I came to Ireland, because I was very curious. And because I didn't have the visa to to work and I had to study English, I made a commitment that I was going to attend class every single day, regardless of you know, where I was on the night before, so many, many times I went after nights out. I was always there, I was always learning and push myself to learn the language. I can't really tell why. But I there was a sense of joy. And still, today, there is a sense of joy of, you know, on learning attached to learning new things, attaching to improve my pronunciation, especially now that I'm running the podcast again, and I'm listening to myself. And I sometimes I forget the -EDs, sometimes I, you know, completely mispronunciate a world -a word. And I think in Portuguese words that I should say in English. So it's a it's a, it's something I don't know, it brings me joy to get better. So when I arrived in Ireland, that's the approach that I had. I also had a relationship with a local lady here. That helped. At the start it wrecked my head and I used to have headaches when I when I when I was with with her friends, because you know, they were they speak very fast, and they were speaking, and then believe it or not, at the time, we had arguments because she was like, you're very silent amongst my friends, while you are with them, you don't say anything. And I was like, I can't keep up with the pace. So that was my journey. So the fact that I was committed to it, I think the relationship with her and hanging out with her friends 24/7 and helped a lot. And then the fact that I, you know, I think waiting, I think English is much is less complex than Portuguese. And I was also able to express myself better with English than in Portuguese, Portuguese is very rich English is you know, I feel it's to the point, straight forward, clear, simple, concise, and I think I enjoyed that. So that's probably one of the reasons. Thank you. Thank you.
Simon Kennell 13:48
That's interesting. And that's like, you know, I'm so glad that you, you talked about like joy as part of the process. And we were talking about that this morning, actually, about how it's so important that mistakes are not seen in a negative light, but in a in a positive light. Like that is part of the learning journey. And you can't develop a skill without this, you know, you know, going through the mistakes and having that be the fun part. And also the immersion part, you know, that what you're talking about, you know, with in a relationship and with you know, her friends and that's so fully immersive and I totally know that feeling of just sitting there around the table, you know, with you know, in a relationship with with their friends and just kind of standing and smiling you.
Paola Pascual 14:37
It's the ultimate test right?
Simon Kennell 14:38
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Leon Nussbaumer 14:41
What about laughing I use laugh. I use like for for many purposes, one is to hide that I not today, today less, but you know, to hide that I have no clue what's going on here. I'm just going to laugh, everyone's going to laugh together. And there was a situation where I was working in the first job that I had here properly, was at a restaurant. And the manager of the restaurant was telling me a story. Now, actually, someone had missed a day of work. And I asked, Oh, where is where's Mark? And she came back to me and said, Well, he's his grandmother passed away. But I didn't understand. So I started laughing. I was like, Haha, she's like, this is not funny. No, I was, What did you say? (Oh, my God) Learning from the very beginning, it's better to ask for clarification if something that you don't understand.
Simon Kennell 15:39
Yeah. And so I'm, I'm really curious how this, did you feel like improving your English and everything like that, it helped you when you were getting to the point where you were interviewing? Because, you know, we work with a lot of a lot of professionals who are either interviewing or have just gotten their job. And one of the biggest things that they worry about is their level of English, and how are they being perceived as a professional as a person? Will they fit in? And there's so so much of this insecurity and kind of focus on that, which I mean, understandably, right, it can really seem very daunting. And we work with so many people that are in that situation. From your experience, I guess, two questions around it, what was it like for you moving into, you know, these multinational global companies where English is the lingua franca? How was that for you, but also as a, as an interviewer, you know, how was that interviewing with people where you could tell English wasn't their first language? And, you know, I guess I mean, in terms of like, communication in a global company, I guess it's, you know, where is the bar really as high as everybody thinks when it comes to, you need to be so fluent to be able to operate, you know, effectively in a in a company like that?
Leon Nussbaumer 17:03
Yeah, I don't think it is, you can see, by me talking to role in communication, you know, I create videos and I have to, I look after subtitles, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of mad, but I don't think I don't think fluency is needed. For me. I think one of the other things as well, that I work so hard with it is to is the fear of judgment and fear of failing and fear of someone, you know, coming to me and say, Oh, my God, did you see Leon speaking English? It's, you know, yes, it's not great. I have an accent, I'm aware of that. So my goal is really to have a, just a, like a clear, well spoken English. That's all. That's all I want. That's why I work probably, I don't want to say hard because it's not hard anymore. But I used to work hard, because I didn't want to step into a conversation and be judged, and have people and deal with people having assumptions about me because my English wasn't as best as it could. And probably that because I like to I, you know, back then in Ireland, the expectation was maybe Oh, you know, he's from Brazil, his English maybe, is not so good. So it was nice to surprise people with good English as well. And he has gotten worse, you know, my partner is from Brazil as well. And so we only speak Portuguese at home. So it's, it's a little bit worse than you used to be. But I like to be in that place. So it's nice to communicate well with people as well. So I don't think fluency is needed. If an organization is hiring you, and English is not your native language, it's probably because it is an international organization, where you will deal and with a lot of people coming from all sorts of places with all sorts of accents. And so I wouldn't worry too much about that. And I was I remember reading an article about it years and years ago talking, talking about how actually, native speakers in international environments, they are the ones that have to adapt when they have a presentation. And they use like a local slang or you know, a word that is not widely known or used. So they're the ones that have to adapt to, to have a more a clear and to the point communication style because you know, you work for an organization that has 50-60% of people that English is not their first language. So, you know, don't come to me with I don't even know why word.
Paola Pascual 19:58
They're not... they're the minority in some in some contexts, yeah, for sure. I really liked what you said about, you know, you don't really worry too much about speaking perfect English. But then you also talked about how you have a growth mindset and you're curious. And I think that's just the perfect balance to thrive in an international environment. You want to get better, you keep improving your English, you talked about working on your accent, but then you are really aware of the fact that to become an effective communicator, communicator, you don't necessarily need perfection. So I think I think that's great. Do you have any, I wonder if you have any tips or examples that have worked well, like communication tips, when it comes to interviews, especially for those who are not native English speakers?
Leon Nussbaumer 20:50
Yeah, so interview wise, the best practice is to practice. I don't think there's any other way around it. Practice with other people that either are native speakers, or they have a good understanding of what a what well spoken English is, because sometimes there is a little bit of lack of self awareness when people are interviewing in English, and they don't understand that their English is weak or poor. So it's really important to gather feedback from, you know, an individual that says, Listen, Leon, your English, I think, is you know, intermediate, so you really have to, to work on it, you don't need to get all the time, but at least you know where you are. And then you can work, your improvement from from there. But for interviews, that's why first of all, interviews in general, because companies have to be fair, and consistent. And give the same experience to anyone and everyone, regardless where they're coming from more, you know, or whatever, interview processes are very, very similar. So you can crack that code, even not having a you can, you can have a, I don't, that's a risky statement, but you can have, you can have an intermediate level of English and pass through the interview process as a fluent individual, with preparation, if you put the time towards it. So the first interaction with the recruiter is going to be via over the phone for sure. So that's an opportunity for you to have your notes. Have notes, write as if you're speaking, and just you know, the questions are going to be mostly the same, talking about yourself talking about your motivations, talking about what attracts you to apply for their organization, talking about your different experiences. So you can have that in a piece of paper or your iPad or whatever, and literally read naturally, in a phone call. Then for the other steps of the interview, is preparation, the recruiter will usually help you with material and we with what he will be expected during those calls. So preparation and repetition, repetition, repetition, and the weaker your communication skill is, the more you're going to have to repeat and prepare. That's just I think, the way things work.
Simon Kennell 23:32
Yeah. And, and so in your experience, if you've been in an interview with with someone who is clear as maybe at like an intermediate, low-intermediate level, and it's, you're kind of thinking, okay, will they be able to navigate the company? And will they, you know, will this work? Right? Have there been instances where it's been like, okay, their their English is not really that great, but they communicated themselves in a way or they kind of showed themselves in a way that makes me think that kind of, like Paola talked about, they have a growth mindset there, they're going to learn they're going when they put into the environment, they're going to learn quickly. And this person is, has the skills and ability to be able to really do well in the company. Have you been in those situations where English isn't the the number one thing that that you're looking at?
Leon Nussbaumer 24:29
Yeah, well, first of all, they, you know, we work I work in an international organization and, and have worked in the past, but sometimes you will be joined those organizations to work with your local market or your language, you would still need English to communicate, you know, with the people internally if they're not if they're not from your country, or to do training and to learn and develop but it is possible, especially if you're working with your local market to join an organization with an English that is not so, so perfect and even intermediate level. I find (it) hard to judge and to make the call in a phone call, and if the only criteria that I have doubt on is their level of English. I struggled with in the past because I don't feel that I'm, you know, English is my second language, who am I to say that someone doesn't have good English? I don't feel comfortable, I didn't feel comfortable with being in that position. But I've been to situations where where I was like, I'm just, I'm not sure. But I passed the candidates forward, moved forward, because it was only about their English. They were prepared, they were on point, they had good, good, good answers. And it was only on their English. So I was like, you know, someone, and that's why interview is a process that happens, hopefully in conjunction with other people. And it's not that I'm passing the responsibility to someone else. But I'm like, okay, you know, she or he is ticking off the boxes here. It's just the English that I'm not really in position to make the call. And so I'm gonna move that individual forward, and the hiring manager will come back to me and say, you know, their English was poor, which it happened before. But also I had people that were hired. And even though I was moving them forward, because I didn't want to have a I didn't want to be biased on my decision with my decision. I was like, they're not gonna go through. And they were hired. I was like, Wow.
Simon Kennell 26:49
There you go. You never know.
Paola Pascual 26:52
Yeah, yeah, but that is very interesting. And it's something we've been hearing more and more lately, that, you know, before to work at an international company, you had to have a very high level of English, that was one of the criteria that you had to meet. And now I've started to realize how more companies are saying, Okay, we really need the skills. And English is something that everyone can learn. So let's hire this person, let's, let's give a lot of weight to the fact that they know how to do things, and then we'll take on the, you know, the training and development and will will help them reach the fluency that they need for their job. So it's interesting that you mentioned that I think that more and more companies are starting to, to have that that approach.
Leon Nussbaumer 27:36
Yeah. And they should. For example, back home, I think 3% of the population (only) speak English. So you, you, you have to give those individuals the opportunity to develop themselves and to have access, you know, to the same opportunities that people that study English have, because usually that will be associated with economic power. And so you're giving people opportunity to to, you know, thrive and develop as well.
Simon Kennell 28:09
And that's a huge, I mean, that's such a, like, the amount of talent, you know, what I mean? That's, that's right there that's untapped. You know, it's just, it's such an opportunity. So, so this is, I mean, I love this topic. And I want to, I think we both really want to talk about the the side of like content creation and employer branding, because that's kind of the other side. And maybe the side that for you. I think, going forward, it looks like you're really building up and I think is really interesting, especially now, when we talk about Employer Branding today. And, you know, from my perspective, a lot of times, especially in tech, it looks like there's so many people that are just copycatting, you know, that are that are that are doing the same thing and trying to project the same image again, and again and again. For you. I mean, what's, what's your philosophy around how companies can do this in an honest way that that attracts high level talent?
Leon Nussbaumer 29:08
Yeah, good question. So I think today, in my opinion, what works well is give your employees a good experience, working for your organization. That's step number one, and then empower them and give, empower and give them tools. So they are able to express them themselves online and create content. And part of what they're gonna share is the journey of being part of your organization. But it's not gonna be only about that don't push, push your employees to know keep sharing and telling the story of what it's like to work here all the time. And so you have to be you have and within those tools, I have a group, a community call that by regular people, what I, I'm, I'm being helped as well, but I'm helping people remove blockers and barriers in regards to content creation, and then we create a content community. So we will help each other and we support each other. And there is a lot of insecurities, there is a lot of blockers, there is a lot of fear of judgment, because it is a public space. And to fail, in the public space, it's not pleasant, you know, to share a piece of content and have zero interactions, even though nobody cares about it is not, it's not nice. So there is an element of that of almost, you know, holding hands for a while until people are comfortable to share content, push them to share content. Within our network, sometimes we share insecurities, which are the posts that we want to create, and we are telling each other, you know, this is great, you know, go ahead, and we help each other with with engagement with meaningful engagement. So it's, it's hard to fail in the public space. Just to go back to your your question, then, as an organization, if your employees are having a good time, and if you are, allow them and give them the tools, to in order for them to express themselves online. That's the way to go. And giving the tools and removing the barriers, and the blockers is the hardest part. Because I think a lot of us, and maybe a lot of leaders take it for granted. They're like Oh, yeah, you know, just tell them to create content online, but there's so much more associated to it. But I don't have any interactions. What if nobody likes it? What if I get if I get cancelled, so and you need to bring people and walk them togetheriIn that journey?
Paola Pascual 31:55
Yeah, I like that. And also how, like also finding, I guess your voice, to make it sound genuine, and original, and not just something that you're supposed to do, but you don't really feel, you know, in your element there. So, yeah, it's very interesting.
Leon Nussbaumer 32:12
It's hard. It's hard to it's not is not is not easy, and then they copycatting everyone doing the same? We know, I think one post that is trending, that even a friend of my data in the past fair, listen to it, you know who you are, I hope she she doesn't mind. But there was a trend of of, of putting, you know, rejection, rejection, rejection, 30 times and then acceptance, no, no, no, no, no, no. 30 times. And then yes, you know, you're only one step away, and so many people were doing this. I mean, it's a great message to share. But... I don't know.
Simon Kennell 32:47
But I love your point about that it starts first with having really engaged employees. And that's, you know, much easier said than done. Right. And that's like, you have to do the hard work first, before you have some, you know, really nice employer branding campaign. You know, it's like, I guess you could put the lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig at the end of the day, right? Unless you have very engaged employees. And I think that that's an interesting point, like, you have to do the hard work first as a company, which, which that's fascinating. And I guess maybe it makes it easier for you, you know, if you're at a good company to do the, you know, to do the talent attraction, you know, when it is a good company.
Leon Nussbaumer 33:28
Yeah, I mean, there are other things that companies can and should do, you know, utilize their company page, or social media handles and create campaigns sponsor content, advertisement, and all that. But I think, people, that's my argument, people want to hear from from people. And there was even a post about three weeks ago of the social handle of Tim Cook, and Apple, I think it was Bill Gates and Microsoft, and maybe Elon Musk and Tesla and the short social handle of the individuals had the double of falling than the organization. So it's, it's just show the power of personal branding. So if employees are empowered, they are at ease, and they are okay. And they have the chance to do so. It's yeah, it's it can only bring good things.
Simon Kennell 34:28
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that is that, right? That personal branding, and, you know, you think about like a company is just like a, just a name or a face, you know what I mean? Like, you're like, you want to see an actual person. And I think that that's interesting. That's why, you know, these CEOs today are they are in a way like rock stars in a way right. It means a lot.
Leon Nussbaumer 34:50
Yeah. And if you're really if your leader is not so active or, you know, I think it's kind of expected now. You know, people look up to you, I think It is part of a skill set that you have to develop for your future, especially now because not a lot of people do it. So it's a good time to leverage.
Paola Pascual 35:11
And, yeah, that's great. I love what you said about people want to hear from people. That's something we sometimes forget. But it's so true. Yeah. So true.
Leon Nussbaumer 35:21
That's why you'll see those posts on LinkedIn, you know, that should not be our content strategy. But they call it cringe. You know, I was going for an interview today, it ran, I saw someone asking for money, I gave them my jacket, the company saw everything and hired me with no interview.
Paola Pascual 35:42
And sometimes it works.
Leon Nussbaumer 35:44
It does, because it's I think it's a, it's probably a step storytelling technique. There. There was an article that I read the other day talking about, you know, how people behave in different platforms, and was given an example of a a post of an individual saying, using those exact words, higher is low, very is low, go out for breakfast, lunch, dinner, take your time, talk to your team. I've been interviewing someone for the past five years, that person doesn't even know. Well, so far.
Simon Kennell 36:30
That's an active talent acquisition cycle right there. That's pipelining Yeah, exactly. Right. That's great. Great, well, Leon, I think this, this was a really great opportunity to meet. And, again, we really appreciate you taking the time to meet today. And I thought, like, all of your points were so insightful, and I hope you know, all the people listening, that, you know, if you are doing the interview, and you're second guessing, should I interview with the big global global company, you know, go for it, you know, like, you never know, as you said, you might get a first interview call, like you said, who someone thinks, I don't know, if they're gonna get good enough. And then there you go, they make it all the way through and get hired. So you just, you just never know, which I think that's, I really appreciate you sharing that story. And I think it should give a lot of people a lot of inspiration. So..
Leon Nussbaumer 37:26
yeah, let the recruiter tell you that you are not good enough for the hiring manager. Don't tell yourself that.
Simon Kennell 37:31
I love that. Definitely. Leon just so you have the opportunity for anybody that is listening, if you want to just kind of plug all the things that you're doing, like all the 500 things you're doing, you know, like, let the people know where where can they find you.
Leon Nussbaumer 37:49
LinkedIn is probably the best. I don't know if there's going to be notes, but at Leon Nussbaumer. Quite a hard surname, but Leon Nussbaumer. And then over there, you're gonna see all this stuff that I'm doing. If you want to really want to give me a love. Follow Leon and the professionals on your favorite podcast platform. There is one episode out to the next one is to be out soon. But I have a couple of of them recorded, as you just said. So join me on that journey and judge my English. See how imperfect it is and how I'm still doing it.
Simon Kennell 38:29
Imperfectly perfect. I'll tell you what, and thank you. And we'll definitely be watching as well. And yeah, who knows, we'll maybe catch up again, down the line at a different point. So great, great. Well, thank you, to you again and Paolo for for taking the time today. And I guess that is it for us. We'll have notes and everything like that and as well, your your handle and where to find you and everything. But that's it for us, Paola, anything else from you?
Paola Pascual 38:59
Know, just, you know, we keep having new webinars coming up and is, you know, if you're interested, we have one every, every month, I think in March, we have two so I'll we'll we'll add the links in the notes and people can just, you know, join as many as you like.
Simon Kennell 39:16
Awesome, great. Well, that is it from us. And as always, to all of you listeners out there, keep learning.
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